Skip to main content

additional AGP observations and thoughts

I’m going to return to the subject of AGP again briefly....

Over at Crossdreamers site, I was participating in a thread where the blog posting centered around transsexual versus non transsexual AGP behaviour.
For reasons I have explained before, my GID for me is certainly more than about sexual eroticism but what struck me is that some AGPers are only interested in the phenomenon as a purely psycho sexual experience with the disphoria coming as an adjunct.

My belief is that that my disphoria was present first (and very early on I might add) and upon entering puberty I first experienced sexual overtones in my identification to the female. In my desire to be like any other normal boy and in conjunction with the societal message that being male is a good thing, I experienced guilt over my arousal and the guilt-purge cycle began in earnest.

Now for some AGPers their female identity remains entrenched in a psycho sexual experience and is never expressed in any physical form such as cross dressing. In other words, there is never any physical manifestation of a female identity but only the dream of having a female body and being penetrated by a male for example. They claim no transgender identity as such.

What makes all this interesting is that in light of Anne Lawrence’s interviews with both autogynephilic and androphilic transsexuals is that what everyone seems to be calling AGP appears on the surface to be a shared phenomenon. In other words, feminization fantasies can be present in almost any type of person. You don’t need to be transgender or transsexual to experience them.

So are we confusing what AGP really means and are people misdiagnosing themselves? Blanchard, Bailey and Lawrence were talking about this theory in their attempts to explain heterosexual late transitioning males who fantasized about being women. Now it seems that somebody who finds wearing his wife’s panties or enjoys bondage while dressed as a female is self identifying as AGP.

Let’s remember that in the literature AGP is referred to as a mis targeting or as an alternate sexual orientation and that Anne Lawrence, who admittedly suffers from this condition, claims there is validity in one’s desire to transition based solely on these grounds.

I don’t give much credence to the AGP theory because it tries to discredit the genuine transgender identification of disphorics like myself in favour of a purely sexual phenomenon. The explanation stretches very thin when trying to explain early life and later life experiences of people like me.

What I find even more heartening is that some posters over at crossdreamers, who identify as AGP but have no transsexual or transgender identity, are using their own experience to try and negate the disphoria connection altogether. They have no desire to transition and in that sense don’t technically belong in the AGP discussion in the context of Blanchard’s original theory.

Comments

  1. "Now for some AGPers their female identity remains entrenched in a psycho sexual experience and is never expressed in any physical form such as cross dressing."

    Because there is no "female identity" for these people, simply a masochistic subjection to femininity.

    The physicality you attribute to crossdressing implies a more than sexual. If talking in terms of sexual fantasies, then crossdressing is a tool within the fantasy itself.

    What is the femaleness of this identity you presume? What is it to be female? What are the properties you represent with "dysphoria"? I don't think you know, yet how you have packaged everything is determinate. How are these historically related to sexuality?

    "My belief is that that my disphoria was present first"

    I had humiliating emasculinization/feminization dreams connected with sexual arousal from the age of 3-6. If I hadn't later recognised the feeling of sexual arousal and if the anxiety hadn't been recognisable in the situation of "humiliation", then don't you think I would simply interpret that I way enjoying the experience of hyper-femininity?

    "Now it seems that somebody who finds wearing his wife’s panties or enjoys bondage while dressed as a female is self identifying as AGP"

    What is the phenomenology? Blanchard, Lawrence & Molay are all guilty of phenomenological naivety. How must "panties" work within experience in order for sexual arousal to be present?

    "I don’t give much credence to the AGP theory because it tries to discredit the genuine transgender identification of disphorics like myself in favour of a purely sexual phenomenon."

    Anne has it right, and it isn't necessarily a discredit to AGP transgender identification. What is routinely misunderstood (and manipulated) is that whilst AGP is inherently sexual, it can psychologically provide genuine conditions for trans identification. There is a great ignorance of psychology in the misunderstanding.

    "are using their own experience to try and negate the disphoria connection altogether."

    No negation, it is simply more complicated than the terms presumed.

    "They have no desire to transition and in that sense don’t technically belong in the AGP discussion in the context of Blanchard’s original theory."

    Blanchards theory included many things, but centrally Autogynephilia "love of oneself as a woman") is a term coined in 1989 by Ray Blanchard, to refer to "a man's paraphilic tendency to be sexually aroused by the thought or image of himself as a woman."

    The very same object of sexual arousal has been represented many times before, previously as transvestic feminization. Before it gave the impression of an experience grounded in clothing, and autogynephilia gave the impression of anatomy. But neither of these phrases has it quite right, as any symbol of femininity will potentially be present.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Lets just agree to disagree...I really find this discussion is going in circles. You are clearly well educated and well read but just like the transexual who absolutely needs to transition in the absence of any physical or genetic anomaly (for now at least), everyone needs to live their own reality.

    You have not proven your point to me nor have I convinced you.

    All the theorizing in the world won't change the way I live day to day.

    Thanks for your input....

    ReplyDelete
  3. I will try and refrain from posting anymore on AGP as it typically starts a very hot debate.....

    ReplyDelete
  4. But one thing....you had emasculation fantasies at age 3? Well guess what I did not. For me being a girl was good enough at that age.

    In the end we all use our own personal filters which colours our perception.

    Like AQV says its not really science its just theorizing based on our subjective experience.

    I am transgendered and very happy with that!

    ReplyDelete
  5. "you had emasculation fantasies at age 3?"

    Somewhere between the age of 3 and 6. As stated before, if the dreams hadn't been recognisably in the context of sexual arousal and masochism, how could they be thought of as differing from your experience? What would have come of my psychological emergence if I hadn't experienced in the context of sexual arousal and masochism...

    "In the end we all use our own personal filters which colours our perception. Like AQV says its not really science its just theorizing based on our subjective experience."

    Psychology itself is not scientific, yet it can be just as real and serious. Your transgender identification is not being undermined, just that the emergence of such in the context of AGP is more complicated than the special terms dysphoric AGPs like to account for themselves with.

    ReplyDelete
  6. Well true enough that psychology is not scientific..and we all need to do what gets us through life as steadily as possible...

    ReplyDelete

Post a Comment

Popular posts from this blog

One transgender woman's take on AGP

This entry from the transhealth website dates back to 2001 and it offers a very nice dissection of the now mostly debunked but still controversial AGP theory and how this transgender woman could care two cents about it. People who have been trying to marginalize the experience of gynephilic transwomen have pushed for the stigmatizing idea that they are actually perverted men. Well this soul, who couldn't give a hoot either way, isn't buying any of it and her frankness at times had me chuckling to myself as I read her posting. If we ever met I would give her a hug for seeing through the BS but mostly for being herself: "About a year ago I was reading on Dr. Anne Lawrence’s site about a new theory of the origin of trans called “autogynephilia.” This theory asserts that many trans women—and transsexual women in particular—desire reassignment surgery because they are eroticizing the feminization of their bodies. The first thing that struck me about it, of course, was t

my last post

This will be my last blog post. When I wrote recently that this blog had another seven years of life in it I was trying to convince myself that it was true. It was in fact a little bit of self delusion. With almost 3,000 posts to date I have accomplished what I set out to do which was to heal myself and in the process share some of the struggle I had been through with others on the chance they might find some value in my words. After seven years of writing, my life still isn't perfect; no one's is. But I have discovered a path forward completely free of the trappings which society would have had me adopt so I could fit in. Over the last 25 years of my life I have turned over every stone I could find while exploring this topic and in the process realized that we haven't even begun to scratch the surface of this deeply complex subject. What I have ultimately learned is that my instincts have more value than what someone who isn't gender dysphoric writes about me. We

Never Say Never....

 I was certain that I would never post here again and yet, here I am. It’s been several years, and life has changed me yet again. I have burrowed further into my psyche to discover more internal truths about myself all in the silence of a life lived with more periods of reflective solitude than ever before. After attempting for many years to be a problem solver for others, I needed to dig deeply to discover who I was, which should be a necessity for all people and an absolute imperative for those of us who dare rub against the grain of conventional society. The most important thing we can do for ourselves is honor the internal voice which has driven us since childhood. That whisper which we were compelled to ignore through our initial indoctrination must be listened to again for guidance. I knew I had spent too long heeding messaging that wasn’t working for me as a trans person, and it was time to stop. For the world gleefully basks in a level ignorance and hypocrisy we are not abl