just a wee bit of irony

I can see how Ellen DeGeneres might have been perplexed.

There was Ellen interviewing Caitlyn Jenner on her show and out comes a comment on gay marriage and how Jenner is more of a traditional values kind of person. I could just feel DeGeneres holding back an ironic expression.

This former man who now identified as a woman was making a judgment on an issue that society has less difficulty with than the idea of a gender role transition.

Being older and identifying as a Republican naturally suggest that she espouses traditional family values except that a gender role transition is not high on the list of red state bible thumping folk some of whom might think she is an abomination before God.

This was a failed opportunity for Jenner to show some understanding about how gender identity and orientation when differing from the norm can expose people to needless suffering and discrimination


  1. What I would like to know, though, is to what extent the fact that Jenner expresses conservative values lowers the threshold for acceptance in American traditionalists circles.

    I have gay friends who despair about the increasing traditionalism in the LGBT community, arguing that the focus on marriage has undermined the radical and liberating aspects of gay culture. I think they are right about this, but it is also clear that gay and lesbian presenting as "regular folks" have made many straight people less afraid of them. They have become humanized in the eyes of the homophobic, and I suspect Jenner may make trans less threatening in the eyes of many transphobic people.

  2. Jack I agree that be expressing a conservative idea in her new "wrapping" it may endear her to people who might have otherwise thought that trans meant "freak" but she has not impressing me with some of her glib statements thus far and clearly bothered Ellen enough to have her bring up the issue with Howard Stern on his radio show. It just seems odd to not see how your own situation is even more radical in the eyes of many and the fact she doesn't seem to notice that does not inspire confidence.

  3. It seems that much of the intolerace towards Jenner is coming from the left. It seems that the left resents the fact that anyone who is gay or trans could be a conservative Republican. This is similar to the pressure that those on the left put on blacks and Latinos to support the Democratic party.
    We often hear in the T community that gender identity and sexuality are separate issues. Someone who is T may prefer a male or a female as a sexual partner just like someone who is not T. Why do many on the left question a T person whose political leanings are not in line with liberal orthodoxy? Why do the left want to presume that anyone who is any part of LGBT want bigger government, more socialism, higher taxes, abortion on demand or any number of left wing causes. To me it seems like a very un-liberal and intolerant way of looking at things.

  4. Pat this is not about government issues its about social tolerance and since the Republican party has become (for better of for worse) the party of family values, we often see much more intolerance coming from them than from Democrats who tend to be more inclusive. It makes little sense to me to be against gay marriage but be for transgender recognition. Surely they are both human tolerance and recognition issues.


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